Read Book XI
text available at http://www.ccel.org/ccel/augustine/confessions.xiv.html
Focus on
1. How can we perceive past, present and future?
2. Why is it difficult to describe time?
3. What's the relationship between God and time?
Journals due on October 21.
In book eleven augustine interprets time. He explains that a long period of time isn't measured by length, it is measured by the different events that took place. Events that are unable to become unison and are abruptly divided. This is what constitutes as a long period of time. On the other hand eternity, which is nor long or short, is perceived more has events that are more simultaneous. In other words there is no beginning or end, no measurement. Everything is at the same time as a whole, constantly consistent. He also discusses time as forcibly being moved by upcoming slots of time. In other words, the past must end and become the past because the future follows it. The past and the future are what is moving while the present constant between the two is still and always there. That is how Aristotle explains eternity, that what is not moving.
ReplyDeleteI believe that there is no way in which we can perceive our future. The reason why I believe so is because we never know what would happen next, no matter if we already know what we want. However, we can perceive our past (just like Augustine does), by remembering our most valuable memories. We can also perceive our present by becoming aware of what surrounds us and at the same time we can see what is currently happening. In the other hand, time is a word hard to descibe. For example, in Augustine: Confessions, Augustine tries to understand what is time by analyzing the creation of the earth. In other words, he realizes that it took God a long period if time to create everything. It is difficult to give a clear description of time because we do not know if it will be a short or long period. Moreover, I think that the relationship between God and time is the creation of the world, which took a long period.
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ReplyDeleteAugustine speaks in a rather religious manner as if the whole book seems like a long prayer, perhaps for guidance and understanding. While one is speaking, something else might be said and then both things are being said at the same time, which is an example of the perception of time. Presence is eternal and serves as a boundary between the future and the past, and the future is created by the past.What was God was doing before the creation of humans and heaven and earth, and if the concept of time even existed then. The transition between the past and the future is the present, and eventually the future becomes the past. The present year is not really a present year because there are 12 months and the month we are currently in is the present and the months and days before the present is already the past, this is a rather interesting way of looking at longer intervals of time. The same idea goes for shorter periods of time, the day consisting of 24 hours and a number of those hours belong to the past while the rest are in the future. The same concept goes for minutes and seconds, as far as it can be broken down. There are different methods of measuring and perceiving time. It is implied that the same images or memories that Augustine refers to as footprints, those images can be used to predict the future, even though it is not known to be possible, but it is an idea. Can one really predict the future? By gathering bits and pieces of the past, by trying to put together different outcomes of a situation according to situations of the past. And what about the present? The present is neutral, it has nothing to do with the future or the past, or is the present dependent on the past and the future is dependent on the present, like a chain. The ratios and time relating to the movement of the body is a concept that I found somewhat confusing. The poem is measured by words, word make up lines, lines make up stanzas and so on... Just like the present, past and future make up time as whole, in my opinion, this is how I viewed this example. Basically, one cannot perceive time in a specific way or predict what will happen because of what happened in the past, it is not that simple and life would not be a mystery if it were. We exist in the present, we remember the past, can we see the future?
ReplyDeleteThe future is always uncertain it could always change one minute of cause and effect to what we learned in the past. augustine speaks of time as the creation of the world and time and shows how they are co-temporal. how we see time its just our present is passing us by. the present is a continuos time and flowing through space but how can we interpret time. what is time and what does it show it humanity and creation of god? one person or one country can change the course of history subjecting it its unforeseen future and jagged but not as a whole. throughout history, government, politics, wars and victories changed time if the past hasn't happened it would be a totally different. for example if 9/11 didn't happen we would have secured our borders, airports, intelligence, and set up different agencies to combat terrorism so that day taught us how unlikely we must consider the future taking the necessary steps by gathering different periods of time, catastrophes, and answers and using them to broaden our knowledge. Augustine tries to grasp the creation of earth as god is to time; god/time is infinite always unlimited we cant truly comprehend the meaning of them both just like his quote "since thy loving-kindness is better than life itself" this means always have a caring/compassionate life on earth as to have a happy life with the lord and all things.
ReplyDeletejonathan ramos
In book XI we discuss time. After reading I tried to understand how to perceive time. What I understand is the future to me basically don't dwell on it because you can't foresee what will occur in the future. Not to say you should dwell on the past or present but at least with the past you already know what transpired and with the present if you contemplate than it can only benefit you. Time is difficult to describe because you can't see it and if you think about it hard who created an hour how do we know that time is passing besides the sunrise.
ReplyDelete"How, therefore, may it be measured? And yet we measure times; not those which are not yet, nor those which no longer are, nor those which are stretched out by some delay, nor those which have no limit. Therefore, we measure neither times future nor times past, nor times present, nor times passing by; and yet we do measure times."
That small quote is exactly what I thought about time. We don't measure the future past present but we still measure time.
Augustine is asking GOD for guidance and understanding of his word to help him to focus more clearly. he wand to understand what is time
ReplyDeletehe went on to praise GOD and question him at the same time asking how he made earth and haven . he want to know what is time and if God know the difference on how time passes because he take too long to answer is prayer . so he conclude that when it comes to time it does not apply to GOD but only to us as humans .
As humans the pass, present and the further affect us and how can we explain what is time itself. the best way and i explain it is that pass is what we already done, the present is the time we living the now, and the future is what to come the unknown , we can plan for it but we can't predict the outcome.
I think the only way we can perceive time according to Augustine is by comparing what has passed with what we are doing at the present moment. This is the way we can perceive the past. On the other hand, the future we cannot apprehend through sight; it is only in our minds. However, there is not a future or a past according to Augustine. Time is difficult to describe because is eternal and we cannot fully understand the concept of eternity. Nevertheless, time can only exist in the present, through memory and prediction. In this way we can say that time is eternal, forever existing in the present moment. The relationship between God and time is that both are eternal without beginning and forever existing.
ReplyDeleteChih Hao Hsu
ReplyDeleteIn Book XI of Confession by Augustine, the idea of time was tested by various arguments, and the most interesting aspect is the idea of past, present and future. For most of us, the past, the present, and the future seems to be the way we define time. From the things that past away, to the things that is happening right now, and finally the things that are about to happen. But in Book XI, Augustine argues that either past or present actually exist, and further more, he stated that since the present takes up no space, and has no duration, present it self actually have no existence either. So if none of the three elements of time exist, wouldn't it mean that time have no real existence too. What i found to be interesting is the how the present time frame is consider to be none existence because it has no duration. to some extend i agree with that statement, because even as i type this comment, time is passing away, and as i think of the present, these thoughts also become the pass too. But to say that the present doesn't existence, its to say we live in a world that time can't be measure by any thing.
Kevin Granados
ReplyDeletePHI 100-141
In book XI Augustine questions time and tries to determine its relation with God. One quote I found while reading the text basically explains time in a nutshell.
"Perhaps it might be said rightly that there are three times: a time present of things past; a time present of things present; and a time present of things future. For these three do coexist somehow in the soul, for otherwise I could not see them. The time present of things past is memory; the time present of things present is direct experience; the time present of things future is expectation."
I believe this quote is accurate in regarding the description of time. Throughout the reading I noticed Augustine was having difficulty explaining time. As humans we are conscious about experiencing time but if we were asked to explain time we would need to contemplate about it because we do not know what time really is. The relationship between God and time is that both are eternal because there is no pause in the flow of time. No matter what, everyone on the Earth is experiencing time so it would be logical to correlate God with time.
Book eleven is about God and time. We can perceive the past, present and future through time. We can view the past by looking back on history. The present by living and experiencing what is going on. And the future by making assumptions from the presen. It is very difficult to describe time because time was before man our knowledge is only assumptions. People were not sure If time was before the heavens and the earth or after. Before the heavens and the earth there was nothing not even space. But to create the earth would need to have time to act upon it. The relationship between God and time is difficult to understand but it is realized that when God made the heavens and the earth it was spoken eternally, and in eternity time is forever lasting while our time is not.
ReplyDeletei believe what this is trying to say is that time cannot be define in a past and present. Maybe that there isn't a beggining and end. That everything is in full circle with no beginning and end however there is a present, that we can know because we live in the present. He relates this to god and eternity that since god is not in our world and instead in an eternal one he cannot be present on earth however he lives througout each of us.
ReplyDeleteTime according to him is not a specific length of time and doesn't exist. But it is like the experiences and events that take place in your life which cant be put on a clock?. The the only way you can predict the future is from the past , while present is whats happening now and future is the past and present events will lead to. God is eternal and he isn't living but he still here so no one is living by time? its a spiritual thing?
ReplyDeleteTime goes on and on and never stops. From what i get reading this is that the passed and the future all depends on the present which is now. The reason i say such a thing is only because what we did in the past can be told in the present because we cant go back to the passed and see what we did at that time period. As for the future it will be affected by the present because during the present we will try to set ourselves for the future. In addition the elements that i have talked about deals with time and to me you really have to handle time and not let it handle you. For example writing this journal let.
ReplyDeleteTalking about the past, present and the future is a very complex issue to have a discussion on. Augustine mentions in book XI that time is a thing that can't be measured with anything. he means to say that there is no time, it is just the events that have occurred. But he, himself has problems defining time as well. There is no way we can perceive the future, because no one knows of what might come tomorrow. But according to Augustine, we can always perceive the past by remembering the memories we had. The past and the future is based on the present according to Augustine.
ReplyDeleteI think the only way we have to perceive time is by comparing one or more even that has passed in the past, whith one which is happening in the present moment. However the future is something which we cant predict, but we can plan. I think that the reason for which time is really difficult to describe is because time is eternal we dont know when time start or when it will end. The relationship between God and time is that we start to measure time from the moment when God created the world before that we didnt know how time really was or how to measure it.
ReplyDeleteI think the only way we have to perceive time is by comparing any event that happened with a event that is taking place in the present moment. However the future is something that we can predict, but i think you have the power to make the way you want it to be. Time is really difficult to describe because is eternal is something that we dont know when its start and we dont know when it will end. For me the relationship between God and time is that people start to measure time from the moment from which God created the world.
ReplyDeleteWe measure times as they are passing by perceiving them. The past is gone, the future is yet to come and the present only exists but has no space and duration. So none of these time really exists. Augustine describes time as distention of mind by which we grasp the past in memory, the present by attention and the future by expectation. Time requires the continual presence in the mind of past, future, memory and expectation for its achievement. All the time exists together and our mind grasp them simultaneously. Augustine believes that our mind can know, choose and communicate only when it participates in and is illuminated by the god because god is eternal and is the creator of minds. The god created the time and is the only eternal and unchangeable.
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